Ukraine


I think we will all (hopefully) agree that Putin is a cunt, so this page has been set up to allow you to vent your feelings about the current invasion and occupation of Ukraine

3,719 thoughts on “Ukraine”

  1. Angelina Jolie is visiting Kyiv, and had to run to a shelter as aur raid sirens blared.
    It seems everyone is visiting Kyiv at the moment. Except Putin. Ah blesski….

    • The old hag from the US has turned up, it’s like party time at the moment. Now put her ugly mug on the front line and that would frighten Vlad. 😂

      • If Jolie is true to form, I reckon the half of the Ukraine’s male population will have had a go on the Hollyweird gluebag.

      • Yeah, or a sickbag, so fake and totally set up just to make her look good and self-righteous, me thinks

  2. There seem to be a lot of buildings and facilities catching fire in Russia lately. Some near the Ukrainian border, but many more deeper into Russia itself.
    Some, particularly the ones close to Ukraine might be as a result of direct military action or sabotage by Ukrainian forces, but I think many may be the result of sabotage by Russian citizens who are fed up of Putin and his gang of murderers.

    Talking of murderers, I saw footage of a triumphant squad of Chechen troops celebrating the flattening of some town. Putins pet peacefuls, they were waving their AKs in the air giving it the full Akbar treatment. Another bunch of religious maniacs let loose on the battlefield by the any means necessary king of repressed homosexuality.

    Some have argued that religion is the cause of this war, but as I have said before, I disagree. Muslims and Christians verses other Christians? Nope, just a cunt who has got mega rich by bleeding his country dry, using all the levers at his disposal. Whip up his population, and those of his puppet empire, with whatever propaganda they respond to, point them in the direction of those he considers his enemy and let them loose. He doesn’t care if they massacre civilians or flattens the place, it’s what cunts like him do.

    Stalin, that atheist that religious people use as figurehead for godless murderers, had orthodox priests flown over battlefields to bless his troops in WW2. He was using the beliefs of his men to motivate them, well those he didn’t murder himself.
    His noughties tribute act Putin did exactly the same thing the other day.
    Isn’t he lucky that murder, rape and pillage are classed as acceptable behaviour in most religions, given the right motives.

    • Religion is a favourite cover for scoundrels who understand the power of religious values and twist them to their own benefit. Putin is a psychopathic killer who thinks a thin veneer of Russian manifest destiny and religious piety will attract support for his failing Mafia government.
      If Putin were at all Christian he would not be murdering innocent Ukrainians… women, children, the elderly, and the sick. He would not be bombing schools and apartment buildings. Instead he would have worked to develop the Russian economy and then put in time to peacefully win over the Ukrainian population.

      • I think you’re both right.

        But I have been thinking today what the West looks like to those outside the West. Say Gay Pride Marches or Drag Queens in schools.

        I watched a video of interviews with pro- Russian people in the Donbass region. When the West was mentioned to a man it came back–‘No no homosexual marriage’.

        I am not of course saying that that issue is the cause of the War. But certainly a factor.

        We are so used to it now that we think nothing of it. But a traditional peasant people would be truly outraged if they felt it was to be imposed on them.

        And fight harder to stop it.

        I do not like the look of Pariarch Kirril. And I watched another video of examples of Russian Orthodox priests supporting the War. I think the congregations maybe have had this line (the decadence of the West) from the pulpit a lvery ong time.

        There is definitely hatred between those Orthodox churches over there.

        That was always the problem with them. Namely; too allied to the country they represent. The Catholic Church recognises their orders are valid. But just as a word (I know you will both appreciate this) in its favour; the Catholic Church is not dependent or beholden to a nationalism like they are.

      • “…support for his failing Mafia government.”

        Fuck’s sake have you looked at Ukraine’s recent political past and its principal [articipants/incumbents? Now THAT’S how you do ‘mafia’ governance!

  3. Bet Vlad struggles to sleep of a night?

    Not because he has the blood of innocents on his hands,
    No doubt hes troubled by his conscience.

    More with the embarrassment.
    I thought Russia would take Ukraine in a fortnight!!
    He thought the same.
    Hes not doing well with it,
    Getting their arse spanked in some regions.

    Made to look foolish.
    Oh dear☹️
    The mighty russian army!!
    He should of stuck to poisoning people.
    Hes a better poisoner than a military strategist.

    • Your forgetting Vlad’s other great talent MNC – posing for Russian gay calendars.

    • A lightweight article under the heading of ‘conspiracy theory’
      A silly old man trying to be relevant beyond his church.

      Talking of the pea dough protector, I bet he’s giving his bellend some serious attention today, as the prospect of half of America outlawing abortion. Talk about back to the fucking dark ages!
      That will be those Bible Belt Americans flexing their political muscle, just as I said a few days ago. Backwards fucking dangerous cunts.
      What puzzles me about the anti abortion skum is that they care so much for the unborn, even some have murdered doctors for working at these clinics, yet that care doesn’t seem to last past birth.

      • Abortion after 12 weeks is fucking creepy as fuck. The militant pro-abortion people in Yankland are nihilists, some of them want post-birth abortion, America has indeed became, the “great Satan,” the “Whore of Babylon.” But that’s a whole other topic.

        (All. Please don’t take this thread off-topic. If someone wants to raise a nomination on the rights and wrongs of abortion, please do so. Thanks – Day Admin)

      • I want post-birth abortion. We should start with the cunts on the wall above, plus Putin. I’m sure we all agree the world would be a much better place without them.

  5. I think we might see some sort of “MEGA-EVENT” soon. Russian TV recently showed this scary simulation of what a 100-mega-ton nuke off the coast of Ireland would do…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4eJvwtQJu4&ab_channel=TheTelegraph

    By all means, nuke London, but the people of Paisley too? What have they ever done to Russia? Russia imports quite a lot of Irn Bru, apparently, so they need to wise up.

    • Fuck Russia. If Putin chooses to kill us all in a nuclear holocaust then so be it. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

      • I just don’t get why Ireland has to be wiped out too! What have they ever done? Didn’t a Russian re-dub of Father Ted make it to Moscow?

      • They hate the English and are fanatically pro EU. They deserve to be wiped out for that alone!

      • I can’t imagine why the Irish would hate the English.

      • Indeed. The micks didn’t care if mainland Britain got nuked until they saw that commie propaganda show with the tidal wave nuke plan, and realised it would swamp those cunts as well.
        As for the sweaties, they are happy for Nato to protect them, but don’t want nukes on their territory. Unfortunately, NATO membership is dependent on allowing nukes to be stationed on members territory if needed.
        So, fuck them too.

      • So it’s fuck the Irish and fuck the Scots now? Micks and Sweaties is it? Fuck me, I thought we were all in this together against Russia? Doesn’t sound like it. Sounds like people’s views on this are all over the shop.

        What exactly should be done? It’s obvious how this ends: Ukraine becomes neutral, Russia draws back the troops, everyone cools off and we get on with life. All this macho man military talk is comical in 2022. We could have a great world this century, but as long as people keep stoking the fires of “us versus those cunts” we’ll be fucked as a nation, fucked as a species.

      • Irish and Scots nationalism are/ were fanatical movements prepared to do a deal with the devil if it secures their cherished aims. Ireland has had a pretty scandalous history – a small nation in which the Church held fanatical sway and the likes of De Valera were happy to suck up to the Nazis and prosecute Irishmen who went to fight for the British against the Nazis. The SNP show exactly the same strain of nastiness. Cunts to a man.

      • I don’t get why bringing up Hitler in 2022 means anything, the cunt’s dead. A lot of people thought Hitler was awesome in the 1930s, Time magazine named him Man of the Year. The SNP were a strange bunch then, weird haircuts… and they still are!

        They say that when people bring up Hitler then it means the discussion has ended. There’s even a law for it – Godwin’s Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

        Like I said, we actually know how this shit-show ends, but there are people who want WW3? Get a grip, it’s a wee skirmish in eastern Europe not the Battle of Britain Part 2, Pearl Harbor Part 2. But the media hysteria over everything makes it seem like WW3 and nukes are inevitable, well they aren’t. I’ll be damned if I see British troops sent to die in another meaningless war. Anyone who wants that is some sort of nihilistic sad-sack who needs to get out more.

      • You see, this is the difference between Irish, Scots, Welsh and English – the English are free, they see themselves as 100% free, no one is bullying them around. In Ireland, they wanted freedom and finally got it. Scots want the same. How would you feel if the shots were called for Britain in Holyrood and it mostly favoured Scotland? You’d want to break away from Scotland.

        Scotland will be a 100% sovereign nation one day, it’s as inevitable as Czechoslovakia amicably splitting. The SNP are cunts, but they are OUR cunts! You can have YOUR cunts, ie. Boris and whoever else emerges from the dark depths. We’ll have our spoils and taxes, you have your spoils and taxes. Let both nations prosper independently.

      • Fuck Boris and his sycophantic cronies and fuckwitted supporters.

      • England should seek independence from London. London could be like Swaziland within South Africa, filled with all the dinghy riders. Build a 100 foot wall around it like in John Carpenter’s Escape from New York and let Sadiq Khan be Major for Life.

        Make York capital of England.

        Paradise!

  6. Noam Chomsky praises… (guess who?)… on Ukraine!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVesAq7eQyk&ab_channel=TheJimmyDoreShow

    Hahaha! You couldn’t make this up. I’m not a huge fan of Chomsky, I think he’s controlled opposition, but he’s spot on here. It’s the whole MILITARY alliances antiquated crap that start wars. We should and could be in an age of relative peace in the world, but the way the USA, UK, NATO carry on, we will always be at war and living in fear – that’s what they want is it? Perpetual war, it makes the big countries squillions of bucks every year and a lot of them get off on war, cunts like Hillary Clinton. These types of soulless creeps love war, they’ve never been on the other end of missiles, that’s why. They’d all flee to remote Canada in seconds if so much as a basic blockbuster hit Washington.

    • I can’t see that NATO has any blame. Had not the Russians subjected the whole of Eastern Europe to autocratic communism backed by Soviet arms then NATO would not have been created. NATO is defensive. The Russians blame it because it’s the only thing that stands in the way of them doing whatever they want to do.

      • Yeah, and the Cold War ended. But NATO and the USA waded into Yugoslavia and kept going even after that came to an end. NATO being on the go this century has just fostered a sense of impending war with Russia. It’s like Trump said, “why can’t we be friends with Russia?” we take their oil, gas, grains, etc but we never took the extra steps of making them an ally. Why play the tough guy against them in the 21st century? Now Russia is allies with China and India, whereas Russia could by OUR ALLY. We fucked up, now the concept of “Eurasia” as a political entity and not just a geographical term used on topographical maps is a reality. This century may well end up being a EURASIAN century as the EU is a shambles and USA is a shambles.

        We actually used to be allies with Russia! Russian Navy protected America from the French and British Navies intervening in the American Civil War. Allies in two world wars. The Marxist freaks ruined it, of course. But the chance was there to reunite with Russia and we briefly did in the 1990s, but Putin was not so keen on the contract he was expected to sign with the western nations, I can see why. Now we are in an extreme situation due to lack of communication, lack of hospitality by Russia and us. Hopefully it all ends peacefully soon, but going by what it happening in the world now, not just Russia-Ukraine, it looks like we are in for a fucked-up decade in myriad ways.

      • ‘It’s the whole MILITARY alliances antiquated crap that starts wars’

        The Pope made the same point in the link I put up. Which is now behind a paywall so can’t get the exact quote.

        But he was saying that ‘the shuffling of arms’ to Ukraine comes froms the weapons manufacturers/industry that want to ‘test’ their weapons on a real battlefield.

        I am thinking of a documentary I once watched on the Nagasaki and Hiroshima bombs.

        Only 2 weejs after the bombs were dropoed Americam miitary scientists were on the ground just to take readings as to see ‘wot it did’.

        The Russians are itching to use a nuclear weapon for the sane kind of reason.

        A sirt of scientific fanaticism.

      • ” ‘the shuffling of arms’ to Ukraine comes froms the weapons manufacturers/industry that want to ‘test’ their weapons on a real battlefield.”

        They know exactly how they behave Miles, they’ve been deploying them across the globe for decades; and that’s the point, they’re decades old and they want to clear out their arsenals of redundant gear so the M.I.C. can re-stock the West with their shiny new toys… at mahoosive cost to taxpayers naturally.

    • Pelosi is actually right on this one. Standing up to the Russians is the best way to avert a war. Appeasement didn’t work in the 30’s. It’s been tried again in recent years and, yet again, it’s failed. When will the lesson be learned ?

      • Avert a war? Eh? That’s not what the crazy cunt is proposing. Her and and Biden should be in a rocking chair right now, but here they are driving the juggernaut over the cliff.

      • “Pelosi is actually right on this one.”

        No, she is fucking mentalist neo-conservative know-nowt.

        “Standing up to the Russians is the best way to avert a war.”

        This is nothing to do with “standing up to” Putin, that is a media driven mindset, to avoid a war it should be about understanding his rationale. What he is doing is entirely rational. Take a directly comparable lesson from the Cuban missile crisis; what was the US response when USSR wanted to deploy atomic weapons there? A resounding “Hell No!”
        Where’s the difference? (any intimation that NATO have only peaceful intentions will not be entertained)

        “…Appeasement didn’t work in the 30’s.”

        With respect to who? Germany? Well Hitler wanted nothing RPT nothing! from Britain and there are endless recorded and documented instances of that so there was no ‘appeasing’ needed i that direction. Quite the reverse in fact as he offered to supply Britain with initially 12 divisions of crack troops in defence of any attack upon British holdings/territories EVEN IF UNDERTAKEN BY HIS TRI-PARTITE PACT ALLIES! (Russia Italy Japan) His only proviso being that Britain should keep its nose out of European affairs (fuckin’ suits me)

        Russia perhaps? Well Churchill was sucking hard on Maisky’s commie schlong and shilling for an Anglo-Russian alliance years before the outbreak of war. Fucking idiot, and just look at the despotic reign of state terror and murderous repression that particular appeasement policy brought into being.

        Towards the United States? … you bet we did… in fact not so much appeasement towards american demands more a pants down, grab ankles, lube-free fisting and a supermarkt sweep of our foreign assets, the last gold reserves. The Roosevelt/Morganthau looting party bled us white and laughed all the way to the Fed with the proceeds.

        What about the Zionists/Jews, were they appeased? Oh and how! Impossible to count the cost to the world of that piece of blackmail done in the leveraging of one man’s egomaniacal vanity.

        “It’s been tried again in recent years and, yet again, it’s failed.”
        Well we’ve certainly shamelessly and unquestioningly appeased the kleptocratic House of Saud and the supremacist and malevolently meddlesome Israeli state.

        “When will the lesson be learned ?”

        Ooooh now that’s a good fucking question, never gets old that one?

  9. Ukraine war: Putin tells Macron West should stop sending arms.

    Do you think Macron would tell him, “Fuck Off you genocidal, war mongering CUNT”. Fucking French would have collapsed after a week. They never saw Gerry coming through the Ardennes. I don’t know why Israel aren’t backing Ukraine.

    My favourite scenario would be for Mariupol to be totally cleared of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians. Give them dinghys to get them safely to Royal Navy ships 20 miles out at sea. Then nuke Mariupol with Vlad’s remaining troops there. 70000 dead. That’d fuck him up. He wouldn’t expect them to nuke their own territory.

    • “…Then nuke Mariupol with Vlad’s remaining troops there. 70000 dead. That’d fuck him up.”

      And how long do we think it would take before Birmingham (pop 859k) or say Manchester (pop 2.8M) reaped the consequential whirlwind? 30mins? 15mins? Hypersonic missile = probably < 4mins

  10. It all ends on May 9 according to Orban.
    That’s what Putin told him

    Let us hope it is the War in Ukraine not the destruction of Western Europe.

    Fantastically strong; their nuclear arsenal.
    How tempting to use them. He wouldn’t dare would he?

    He’s nuts. I find it hard to imagine him ‘doing’ compromise. This is a perfect storm.

  12. For sake if clarity, NATO didn’t into Yugoslavia. That was the UN

  13. Chancellor Schulz is upset with the Ukranians for “ creating problems” in German- Ukraine relations. What a tone deaf twat.

    The problem has been created by Germany financing Russia for the past 25 years and acting as Russias advocate to the West.

    How mean of those Ukranians to forget the appropriate diplomatic niceties due to the Fifth Reich whilst fighting for their lives. Particularly after Germany sent them all that military equipment that doesn’t work.

    German cunts.

    • Contrary to what the conspiritards (and the Pope) say, the west has been financing Russian military and political ambition, and has enabled it by not taking any real action when they have invaded their neighbours on multiple occasions, shot down civilian aircraft, and carried out political assassinations in other countries, using chemical weapons and nuclear isotopes as calling cards, resulting in the death of innocent bystanders.
      Fuck Russia, and fuck those that make excuses for their warmongering actions.

      • Does the Arms Trade encourage war? I woild say it prolongs wars.
        I think.

        Isnt there a supply and demand issue?

        I mean these Arms manufacturers can’t just keep producing weapons if they’re not being used.

        The Pope has called Kirril ‘Putin’s “altar boy”‘.
        I dont think that is slaveshilshy following the Conspiracy line.

      • Most munitions have a limited shelf life, as chemicals and compounds degrade and make them useless. Ask the Ukrainians how many of the 3000 anti tank missiles were in a usable state. Then there is obscelesence, be it through technological advancement of your own equipment, or the opposition, or effective countermeasures etc.

        Supply and demand. If you want to be in a successful business, find something that human nature requires.

      • I should have said the 3000 anti tank rockets that Germany sent to Ukraine with much fanfare.
        The stuff other nations are sending is bang up to date, pun intended.

      • It’s the USA (and Britain gets dragged along) that are the real war-mongerers of Earth. Trump was the only President in living memory not to get America into a new war. This Russia-Ukraine war should never have happened, but it has and it has hyped people into a frenzy just like all the other frenzies they get into at the behest of the media.

        If it must be World War 3, get fucking on with it, but with the shambolic cowardly governments we have today in Europe, UK, USA, who are more concerned with woke shit, it will be a shambles. Biden as Commander in Chief of WW3? HAHAHA! Holy fuck, that would be pure gold. Or Kamala Harris? Boris shuffling around the London Underground at midnight in his bathrobe aping Churchill? BBC News too scared to show the true bloody carnage of it all and just having reporters gibbering away in front of a wall for 30 minutes at a time?

        It won’t happen, as no western leaders have the stomach or balls for that level of sheer horror. Only Putin, Xi and Islamic nutter leaders are that deranged these days.

      • Quality assessment from the same stable that said Savile was a satanic wizard that summoned demons.
        At least it made me giggle.😂

      • Apparently, Western leaders would have to be “deranged” to stand up to “Putin, Xi and Islamic nutter leaders” these days. 🙄 It’s a point of view, I suppose.

      • Entering into a a full-on war with Russia would be madness and they all know that, that’s why they have only made little baby steps and macho-man mouth noises. The old leaders of Europe would have waded in by now, but as the leaders of Europe are more concerned with pronouns, offensive statues, fucking with their own citizens, they have shown they have no real courage. Not that Putin does, he’s a fucking mess, too, but he has madness on his side, which in war, goes on a long way.

  14. Who are the Nazis eh?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10785295/Russian-TV-host-threatens-concentration-camps-sterilisation-opponents-letter-Z.html

    Worth reading for the comments alone, there has to be a tinfoil shortage on the horizon.

    And, if you want to read bullshit straight from the arse, check out Russia MFA on Twitter. It’s the official account of the Russian ministry of foreign affairs, and trust me, it’s not a parody account. Yesterday, they were celebrating world free press day, without a fucking shred of irony.

    • 400 years of being subjugated by the Ivans, no wonder they’ve had a titfull.
      Now Google how many countries have been invaded by, or attacked by Russia in the last, I don’t know, let’s be generous and say 30 years.

    • Annexed to what is now Ukraine by Russia when they controlled Ukraine. Old habits die hard for the Ruskies.

  17. You shouldn’t be putting up foreign language sites Through A Glass Darkly. It’s upsetting for the anglosphere normies.

    • English sites aren’t reporting it yet, brother. Hungarians are still pissed at how much of their land they lost from 1914-19. Many Magyars live in Romania. They have one thing it common – they HATE the LGBTQ+ propaganda. It’s all kicking off in 2022, eh?!

  20. What do you make of this creepy Obama speech…
    https://www.facebook.com/fawn.lawrencewipf/videos/565454914807306/

    Bath House Barry seems both rattled and threatening here, in his own comical way, of course. I reckon the governments are getting ready to China-style censor the internet, especially Elon Musk’s Twitter via sweeping laws. I can’t see Twitter becoming a free-for-all where even a handful of ultra-dark shit finally sees daylight for the plebs. Can’t have lies and evil deeds being exposed, can we, Barry?

  22. Russia have been bragging that they could wipe out all NATO countries in 30 minutes. It’s obviously a bluff, but do they honestly think they wouldn’t be subjected to catastrophic retaliation? There are no winners in a nuclear war, end of story. Those killed in the initial strikes would be the lucky ones. Those who were in bunkers would inherit a dead planet, and an existence that would not be worth living.
    The Fail shows pictures of Russian mobile nuclear missile launchers rehearsing for the yearly Moscow parade, and comes to the conclusion that Russia is using them to intimidate the West. More likely they have to use these vehicles to make up the numbers, as so much of their military equipment is either burnt out in Ukraine, towed away by farmers, or waiting for fuel to reach them as they sit idle in laybys.
    Never mind, the Ivans bought 29 T34/85s, a WW2 vintage tank from some Far Eastern country a couple of years ago, for parades and films. They might have to pressed into service again…..

    • Russian TV had this CGI video of exploding a Samat under the sea 30 miles off the coast of Ireland causing a radiocative tsunami to destroy Great Britain.

      Trouble is it will destroy the island of Ireland as well.

      With my close contacts in the Republic I have heard there was a top level milititary/ political meeting about it and they decided to press the nuclear option.

      Send Bono and the Edge over there now.

      A very risky strategy.

      I also heard If that that doesnt do the trick they have a hideous plan to have both Boyzone and a Westlife reunite to play on a double bill in a bombed out kyiv theatre.

      This is all just too much.The thought of it is beyond horrific.

      The object of all this lest we forget–: to destroy ukranian morale completely.

      No, not the Russians

      As Supernormie RT always says the Micks were on the side of the Nazis.

      And they’re on the side of the Ruskies now.

      • It doesn’t seem to occur to the imbeciles in the Kremlin that the tidal wave would go on all direction and the Yank’s might take exception to New York being devastated as well.

        Morons….

  28. Some interesting thoughts on the wider global consequences of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
    In the Middle East, the staunchest ally of the west, Saudi Arabia, has shown some support for Russia by not helping with the global oil price and increasing production, an act that would usually happen to help its allies.
    Bin Salman, who has come in for some criticism for murdering journalists, has snubbed the west, who he is reliant on for regional security, for what appears to be closer ties with Putin. He sees Putin as an inspiring leader, and possibly a future ally, as the west will help militarily with any aggression against Saudi, but would not bomb indiscriminately those that Saudi consider enemies, whereas Russia, as seen in Syria, will bomb the fuck out of anyone or anything to prop up a friendly dictator.
    So, where does that leave the region? The push for green energy, and less reliance on oil will always mean the end of Saudi as a rich nation, and its current stance on oil production means that this will be accelerated, bringing its end even sooner.
    In the meantime, softening attitudes to Iran, a sworn enemy of Saudi, may mean its brought back into the global market for oil, as a stop gap, and even as an ally to the west to replace Saudi.
    Interestingly times, unfortunately.

  29. My guess is that it will just leave the Saudis richer and us poorer. The Saudis will still us oil but will do no favours on the price. Buying from Iran will destabilise the region even further. That’s the only thing which might cause the Saudis to pause for thought. They dread a strong Iran as much as us.

    The country I am most disappointed in with their response to Russian aggression is India. India has shown it can’t be trusted or relied upon as a partner to the West. In short, cunts.

  30. Is it wise of Johnson to be so much to the fore in the West’s response to the war in Ukraine? He was the first to visit Zelensky and I think the first leader to authorize military aid.

    He’s recently been in Finland supporting their effort to join NATO. That was a Russian ‘red line’ wasnt it? No NATO forces on their doorstep.

    I can well understand them wanting to join. But did Johnson have to go there?

    Johnson is ‘stepping up to the plate’….I suppose. But is he being ‘prudent’?

    • On the contrary, it would be imprudent for the UK and the West in general not to show strong support for its allies under the current circumstances. The West has appeased Putin’s gangster state for ten years, look where it got us.

    • The Russians don’t understand or respect prudence. They only understand it when someone stands up to them.

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