Traditionalist Catholics

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(Yes, this is another Miles Special, and is pretty heavy-going, but definitely worth it – Day Admin)

Bare with me colleagues.

Those who oppose the new order (the norvus order) of the mass promulgated after Vatican 2. Not a usual subject for a nom but please crave my indulgence if I can use that word in connection with Catholicism.

I now see Moriarty as my deadly spiritual foe. That was his name ____Moriarty.. He used to send me emails with reams and reams of documents attached to convince me that Vatican 2 was not a legitimate Council and the new mass was ‘defective’.

Yup wading through Papal Bulls, Encyclicals to get to the truth. A very depressing time in my life.

The ‘missa de angelis’ that is the exquisite music associated with the Latin Mass. I started to put it up on YouTube. Then I started to think I had lived through ‘the spirit’ of Vatican 2. Yes when many churches were stripped of statues and paintings and the mass became more relaxed and the priest even making jokes.

Terrible examples of ‘Clown masses’ I read about but never witnessed. But it was a very big change. Now we used the vernacular and the priest faced forward. All the old dignity and decorum was gone for many. It killed Evelyn Waugh you could argue.

Anyway I got caught up in this way of thinking for of a time. What were the conspiracies? According to Moriarty Pope Paul the VI was an imposter. Freemasons had infiltrated the Council. The focus on ‘Ecumenism’ was in reality only about ushering a world religion for the NWO. Loads and loads of stuff like that. What happened next?

You know the fanatics shout the loudest. Fractious, always fighting- talk mode, schismatic or schismatically-minded they are. I just got sick of it I think. Still played the old music on YouTube but I just left it. Or rather it left me. I never go on their websites because I know what they are going to say. (As an aside here isn’t that the one characteristic shared by all Conspiracy Theorists they repeat and repeat and repeat the same things?)

Anyway Pope Francis has just dropped a bombshell. You might have read about his motu proprio ‘traditionosis custodes’ basically making it very very difficult to celebrate the old latin mass. The traditionalists are up in arms of course.. I can see years and years of vicious infighting ahead

But Francis is right. It is like a church within a church. It has become terribly divisive. And the Council Fathers were right to update the mass. And use vernacular language so the people could understand what was going on.

Yesterday Gavin Williamson said he wanted Latin to be taught more in schools and has set aside funding for it. Which made me smile.

Nominated by: Miles Plastic

(More info here – Day Admin Traditionalist Catholicism )

87 thoughts on “Traditionalist Catholics”

  1. I rejected the RC faith at the age of six on hearing a priest say that Protestants were all going to burn in Hell for eternity. It seemed to be a bit OTT to me.

    • Me mam says she and her mates usedta sit on the fence at St Joeys at play lunch, and sing over the fence to the government school kids:

      “Catholics we all ring the bell. While all the Stateys march to Hell”

    • The Prods won’t get near the fire for the Fenian priests, G. Old joke, but probably true.

  3. errata;

    the new order (the Norvus Ordo) of the mass

    his motu proprio ‘Traditionis Custodes’

    • Errata, you say Miles; is that meant to be some kind of comic understatement?

      It got off to a howling start

      Bare with me…

      and came to a grizzly end.

      Quality stuff.

      • Good nom Miles!👍
        And incredibly sexy!
        All that talk of Beverly deAngelo brought me to the brink👍

        Dont take these cunts insults to heart,
        You can laugh as theyre all dragged screaming to hell.
        Chin up old bean.😁
        Ps
        Next nom you do make it more sexy?
        Im no prude and it can be sheer filth for me!
        Sex sells.

      • You’re welcome! There were quite a few, but an interesting – and I daresay for some a refreshing – nomination nevertheless.

  4. Great nom, Miles,

    People fucking died in the grisliest of ways to be able to celebrate mass in the traditional way. It was an ongoing fight for centuries. If people want the obscure and ancient majesty of full Latin mass then they should be able to celebrate it. I think old Pope Francis sounds a bit of a cunt.

    Go in peace.

  5. A neutron bomb over Vatican City would solve a lot of the worlds evil. Fucking cunts. If Jesus came back he’d personally launch it I bet, and God would applaud!

    You won’t find the truth in the papal bulls, memoirs, etc. Smart evil people tend to cover their tracks, or put down tracks to someone else’s front door. Like the City of London boys who launder money into the offshore world for MI6 chums and other top brass, they do it informally over tea and don’t leave a paper trail.

    Catholicism can suck a (adult) dick.

  6. So Gavin Williamson wants more Latin scholars does he. Classics were traditionally seen as the preferred route to the higher echelons of the Civil Service as the rigours of the subject made one’s brain extremely focussed and an ability to act decisively.
    It doesn’t appear to be true in the case of Boris the Jellyfish.

  7. This lot have a worse history than the Nazis. Fucking murdering, child rapists. Burn ’em, the cunts!

    • When Child-rapîsts leave their home to go off to raping children, did God send them or is he watching and will subsequently punish them?

      • God gets his rocks off watching them, and will get his rocks off again punishing them. It’s a win-win situation for the old prevert in the sky.

      • Evening Father O’Ruffley

        How about when he gives children cancer? Does he punish himself or does he disguise himself before visiting the hospital ward to observe the suffering?

      • The best is the load speaker in the cistein chapel. Telling people to shut up on loud speaker. Couldnt make it up. WITH WARMAPS ON A RELGIOUS BUILDING. Go to Winchester Cathedrel. No war maps, go to any church no warmaps.

        Complete joke, at least he has the swiss guard.

  8. I grew up an anglican and went to a C of E school and it primed me for atheism in later life.

    ‘As an aside here isn’t that the one characteristic shared by all Conspiracy Theorists they repeat and repeat and repeat the same things?’

    See Coronaviral shit on this very site.

    Ever thought of joining The Church of Scientology, Miles?

    • ‘See Coronaviral shit on this very site’

      Very much in my mind when writing it CP.

      Its a strange one. And I am not sure I have made myself clear. Post Vatican 2 the Church was turned upside down by ‘innovation’ and ‘experimentation’. As I say old churches were stripped of statues and paintings. Insense was gone. The tabernacle moved a less prominent place in newly built churches. For someone like Evelyn Waugh in his own words this ‘had knocked the stuffing out of me’.
      I can just barely remember the old old mass. But I do remember the ‘spirit’ of Vatican 2. Very well..My aunt being a nun. And she changed her habit and showed a bit of leg and a litlle hair coukd be seen beneath her wimple. And it was all about NOT proselytizing anymore. We’re all the same. Don’t mention Hell. Dont cause trouble.
      And congregations collapsed. And nobody bothered anymore.
      And many more things. So to many conservative minded people V2 was if you’ll excuse the pun a bomb and a catastrophic one.
      Anyway slowly but surely things started to calm down. And people started to look at the V2 documents again. And it turned out that the documenrs were misinterpreted.
      And a revival in the Latin mass which was never abrogated. There had been a schism with Lefebvre but many ‘Societies’ stayed loyal to Rome.
      This is where I fell into it. And (this the point) where I found out that many of them were schismatically-minded. What I said about a church within a church.
      So the paradox here us that the Tradionlist are the heretics, the innovators the orthodox.
      These Traditionalists are supposed to be part of the church but many of these ‘Rad Trads’ are always bashing the pope, bashing V2. All their websites are critical of the hierarchy of the Magisterium. And I dont like ’em.

      • Questioning covid for the crap I think it is and the misery it has inflicted on millions due to the grotesque over reaction is conspiracy theory.
        The belief in a magic sky fairy and following the word of a cult of child molesting virgins is however, perfectly normal.

      • I wonder if God or the Catholic church could possibly help Australia out at this point.

      • HERMAN AND BCC

        Do you know for certain that what you say about the cironavirus Pandemic is true? And not a delusion?
        Are you both infallible?

  10. When the ritual goes, the religion will go, Miles. Look what happened to the CofE And I doubt that after, say, 1800 a.d, many more of the congregation understood Latin – beyond the responses – than do today. Keep it. You need some distance between Old Nobodaddy and his creation; otherwise, what’s the point?

    • The heart of the matter is what way the priest faces-. ad orientem facing the altar. Or versus populum facing the people. The first one can seem rigid, an archaic language, a distant God far away. The second one God is close but the celebration too relaxed. A bit chatty in the vernacular.
      This has got me thinking again.
      But I will follow the pope.

      • The heart of the matter ,Miles
        Engaging with God should require the priest to face the Altar as all other subjects have no choice when sitting in a row
        You are correct in this matter , as a priest is only a representative of the church and not above the almighty he represents
        We are been preached by so many sheep it’s easy to forget what is not only aesthetically correct but also ethically correct
        Pray with your followers and face the Lord

  11. Boris Johnson to call a Cobra Cabinet Office Briefing Room meeting to discuss the situation in Afghanistan.

    Reckon in this instance the Cobra meeting should stand for Cunt Otherwiseknownas Boris Realfucking Arsehole.

    5000 killed and one trillion $ already spent and for what exactly? Something that was none of our fucking business.

    What’s the betting we won’t make the same mistake again?

    • You would have thought a country known as the ‘Graveyard of Empires’ was a pretty big fucking clue. If he wants a Cobra meeting about anything then it should be kicking the frogs up the arse over the relentless dinghy invaders.

      • Jeremy Vine was on the radio today priming the listeners for another “refugee crisis” thanks to a load of religious nutcases returning themselves immediately to power.
        He didn’t say religious nutcases but we know that’s one of the reasons. Along with the fact this was another absolutely disastrous foreign intervention which achieved the square root of fuck all except the needless deaths and injuries of hundreds of UK armed forces personnel.

        The corrupted bastards that decided it was a good idea to intervene in a place such as Afghanistan should all be relocated there with immediate effect.
        Cunts.

    • Quite so Willie. 67 British citizens killed on 9/11. As a Christian country we should have done the Christian thing and simply turned the other cheek.

      • Just read it again.

        ‘As a Christian country we should have done the Christian thing and simply turned the other cheek’ I take to be sarcasm.
        So the Aghan war legitimate, just?.

      • Yes Miles. Our intervention was justified, and our current abandoment is a big mistake.

        Trouble is our politicians seem incapable of not making a pig’s ear out of everything, more recently Brexit and the Pandemic.

  12. Can’t work out wtf this is all about. Surely belief in gods is what you gave up by the time you left junior school, along with father christmas and the tooth fairy?

  14. A lapsed Catholic here. However, on the rare occasions when I have been to Mass I must say I vastly prefer the traditional Latin Mass to the new Protestant style mass in English. The Latin Mass is beautiful and vastly more stirring than the Vatican II version. I would be happy if Vatican II was ditched forever. It was a mistake – even if the Pope is infallible.

    • @MMCM
      Chesterton (oh no not again) talked of Lating having an ‘iron immortality’.
      It occors to me that Gavin Williamson’s 50 million funding for Latin teaching might be perspicacious. For, with the meaning of English words changing so fundamentally and rapidly we will have need of the latin language just to communicate with each other at all.

  15. What exactly is being cunted here?

    The versions of Christianity that we ended up with once the conniving Romans got hold of it then the Jesuits then the Freemasons is a Reader’s Digest retards version of what it is really all about. I go with the view that all the major characters of the Bible never existed and that they each represent parts of the body and the events of the Bible are the changes that the body must undergo in order to attain enlightenment. Christos is some kind of oil that you must generate in your body and make it ascend (Ascension of Christ) up the spine to the brain and that’s the final step of enlightenment and when you become Christ-like, or Buddha-like, or Krishna-like. That’s REALLY what alchemy was/is all about, not that subterfuge of turning lead into gold for the King. I’ve only just came across this esoteric teaching of the Bible, but it makes sense. Otherwise the Bible is just a history book with wisdom, weirdness and wackiness jumbled together and I think that may have been the point over the years – to make it all seem more and more idiotic to turn people off it. Jews, Jesuits and Freemasons, man! By Jews, I mean the fake Jews, the Synagogue of Satan, the “real Jews” are on their own righteous path, but the cunts in Israel and American government and powerful institutions are the ones who want to destroy the natural way of life by any means necessary, that’s why the last 500 years have gotten progressively more fucked up and degenerated. People are now sick mentally, physically and spiritually on a massive, worldwide level. We are in a war and the good guys eventually win, but there’s going to be a lot of pain and death ahead this century.

    Happy times, eh! A great post for the weekend! Religion is a massive cunt until it can be practically shown to do some good and it does, but most of the time it is like a political pantomime that stirs up anger and mockery.

    Our bodies aren’t just lumps of meat. They have a purpose. This geezer from Australia explains it in hours-long videos, but this is a 13-minute version of the Christ Oil secret…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06Gn-_7z82k

    Wild stuff, eh?

  18. I was going to chuck my usual two pence worth in, not wanting to miss my usual ridicule of all religion, but I’m fucked if I can make head or tail of it, and couldn’t make it to the end. So….
    Klaus Barbie, despite his silly name, was a particularly nasty Nazi who more than earned his nickname of ‘the butcher of Lyon’ as he tortured anyone suspected of being a member of the resistance, or sympathetic to their cause. He was going to become a Catholic priest but found the Nazi party to tempting to pass on. He rose through the ranks quickly, as he was a proper evil cunt and was prepared to do anything for his fuhrer, however despicable. Not that he gave up his faith, as he remained a devout Catholic throughout as his faith is compatible with such evil. That the Vatican helped many Nazis escape Germany and justice is testament to that.

    • Sorry, but I wasn’t having a go at the nom, I couldn’t understand it because of my ignorance of what Miles was getting at. It’s like football, I don’t have to know all the rules to hate it.🙃

  20. I was a RC when I was a lad and I was educated by nuns when i was a nipper.
    There was one nun who was lovely (Sister Frances), and there were a couple who were absolute cunts. Communion scared the shit out of me when I was four years old and so did the statues of the man nailed up. It now astonishes me how people really believed that fish on a Friday stuff and thought they were going to Hell because of this and that. As a 14 year old in Newton Heath, smoking Park Drive and errr… reading Mayfair, I thought I was in for it, but then I thought ‘Sod it’ and gave the old Papism the boot.

    Our local priest was ace though. Father Campbell. A right laugh and a pure piss artist.

  21. Latin , the only true of languages that connects us all in from the Med to the rest of the West
    Catholicism is not what Jesus preached
    I’m rather happier for what I learned in the Christian belief than I would be otherwise despite all the faults
    Maybe I don’t believe in everlasting life but when all is said and done the sun goes down and I know I’ll have doubts
    Great nom Miles

  23. I saw that Shroud thing when I went to Italy. It looks shit in the flesh. Like a tablecloth with tea stains on it. However, in negative, it looks as creepy as fuck. Fuck knows how it was made and why it can be seen more in negative.🤔

    • Can I get this right without looking it up?. It is a deeper mystery than that. See the faint image on the cloth is actually in the negative. In the sense that dark areas (that should be dark) are light, light areas dark. When a photograph is taken and printed in the negative it is actually positive -the light areas dark. the dark light. (Whereas it should be the other way round in a negative?
      2 paradoxes iit is a positive negative. It is clearer in the negative.
      But that trails into insignificance at the discovery the shroud of Turin has depth. So when a photograph of the shroud is put thtough a VP8 maachine the properties lift and a 3d effect is seen. If it was a photograph the properties would degrade not lift. Therefore it has 3d encoded into it.

      • It’s also weird that there’s an image on the reverse side of it too. it’s bloody strange and no mistake…

  24. When ever i see people blaming freemasons for anything i just laugh. I know quite a few myself, they are harmless. They are just very good at their jobs and want everyone to do well. Its not a secret society as people think it is.

    • Actually I agree there. From those who I have seen on television. Seem decent people.

    • Then there are those who claim they were raped by Freemasons in the lodges and temples. The Freemasons do a good PR job when the present themselves as a harmless charitable social club, but it goes much, much deeper than that. The 33 degrees don’t really mean that much and most Masons are kept at the lowly 3rd degree. The real hierarchy is about who your family is, how powerful they are. I’d never trust a Mason, I’ve had run-ins with them and they are psychos who think they run the world and on many levels, they do. Freemasonry should be abolished along with many other powerful institutions that have corrupted the world.

  25. As the great sage Neil said in the inbetweeners, ‘god is just dog backwards’. Quite so. Religious ‘managers’ are just after the power. Cunts!

  28. RC , a lot of orders
    I for one since childhood never liked the fussiness
    The Bible contains a lot of metaphor and a lot of not so believable stuff
    Jesus was a young traveler ( a prophet in some other beliefs ) and the words and parables were simple , but profound
    Those words reverberated across the old bygone World that changed human behaviors
    His words empowered simpler people’s to work with togetherness and not selfishness
    The reward for this restraint was heaven in the presence of God
    It was so powerful to people with nothing that the Romans adopted the whole concept and here we stand today.
    It was of course an uncomplicated message that has been manipulated ever since

  30. In the end it all comes down to whether the people need to go through a priest(and thus an institution) to get to God or whether they can do so via Jesus without the need fir the gate keepers, lucrative business don’t you think.

    • Yes ,spirituality is the personal gateway WCtC
      The rest is ,as you have pointed out is charlatan characters guiding you and your wallet

      • The selling of indulgences made a few people incredibly rich. The modern religion of climate change has their own version called carbon credits.

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